Charter Square North Changes Looks Yet Again

Charter Square North

More matching the already built south tower, the Raleigh appearance commission will be reviewing the latest renderings of the north tower with this rendering above. The 23-story, mixed-use tower has been in the planning stages for quite a few years so could this finally be the final design?

I personally was a fan of the previous renderings. This newest one “smooths out” the edges a bit by removing the vertical “fins” which I thought added some upward “interestingness.” (sorry for all the quotes)

Should make for a great project though.

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It looks fine, but I wish they would actually start building it. They were digging the hole for the foundation when I was thinking of moving here almost 8 years ago…

It makes sense for the language of the second building to be congruent to the first building. As a pair, the two buildings look fine together and what they lack in height is somewhat mitigated by their lateral massing. I agree with Jeff; just start it already!

This is a bit old “old news”. They announced this change back in March.

When in the hell are they actually going to start construction is the big question. This building has dragged on and on and on….though not nearly as long as Greg Sandreutter’s building, “the Edison” which he as been promising for over 5 years.

Charter North , Hopefully Soon ! They are in their 3rd review ! BC , Can you give us any info. Thanks !

Was downtown Saturday and noticed all of the signage for the future Edison had been removed from the fencing at the site. I have to believe this project has hit a road block. I wouldn’t count on this being built anytime soon. On the positive note, maybe they will plan something even larger in its place. Have to think that maybe the Dillon has something to do with the wait and see attitude these developers are having with regards to downtown office development.

@Daniel
Then Kane’s attitude must be wait and see me make money as he has planned out his project and got it underway in a short amount of time. Go figure…

I liked the fins from the older design, also. Gave the building some texture. The solid mass of glass is cool looking, but lacks any distinguishing texture. And have engineers finally fixed the “falling glass panes” problem? They are having problems with the glass at the Museum of Natural Science expansion building.

A smooth finish is nice sometimes but I miss Art Deco and Art Nouveau details as they are my favourites!

What is the deal with the Edison tower? Did they change their minds? Way to “dangle that carrot” then take it back!

With the demand for apartments still pretty high, I wouldn’t be surprised if they built a second Skyhouse in the Edison spot. In Charlotte they went ahead and decided to build two Skyhouse buildings.

Well.. Charlotte somehow knows how to get professional sports teams, businesses and more buildings. They also get TopGolf! Durham is also passing us!

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article75015847.html

Any news on what the Lundy Group is planning to do with the lot they purchased on Hillsborough St and when they plan on breaking ground? The fact that none of these projects have broken ground yet, has a very familiar feeling. It takes me back to the days of the Reynolds tower, the Lafayette, the original Edison, etc. all of which were never developed. I fear that history may be repeating itself, yet again. I think I’m done getting caught up in the hype only to be let down time and time again. I look forward to all the new projects DT, but I won’t believe they’re actually happening until I see the finished product. Not even a foundation will get my hopes up. (I’m looking at you, the original Charter Square!)

I don’t think just because two buildings haven’t started yet, that we are in some dramatic downward fall downtown. Ground floor retail is on an upswing, thousands of apartments are being built and opening bringing more residents, the Kane Dillon project is well underway, there’s talk of a grocery store coming downtown, and Union Station is finally starting to move along. Call me an optimist, but I’m happy with what I’m seeing right now, and an Edison and a Charter Square would be icing on the cake.

It is just starting. Kane is going to kick start downtown to a new level. Kinda of sad the City isn’t selling its terrible RMB building and moving to a complex near the beltline that can accommodate its employees without Mclaurin parking raping them as they don’t get free or subsidized parking even in a city deck. Since 15% of employees don’t make $15 an hour is sad but to make them pay $110 a month for a city owned deck is just wrong. Even McCrory gives subsidy to his employees. But the mayor and manager get free parking so we good.

I think there are several things at play here regarding office space development downtown. This is not my field, but my thoughts nonetheless: 1)there still has never been a huge rush on downtown office space. It’s been organic and gradually absorbed. We of course lack many headquarters downtown and do not have a flagship industry or company that provides a repeatable cache. None of this is bad. Just is what it is. 2) Our developers of office space seem to have very different levels of proficiency pulling projects off. This could be because of financing, ability to attract tenants or other reasons. When Kane speaks, he is always ready to proceed. When Sandreuter speaks, it is part of his attempt to sell a project. Lundy, I think is just so early in the process, there is no need to worry or can any conclusions be drawn. The Charter Square group seems like a good combination of folks who are Kane-like in there public approach (when they speak, its going to happen), but aren’t quite as able to start a project completely on spec so need lease commitments before announcing much of anything. Having said that, is Charter North proceeding on spec? My gut feeling is all but Edison start within 12 months and Edison gets a reconfigure…another Skyhouse wouldn’t be a total surprise, though I have a feeling he ends up selling off that corner entirely.

We also need to consider the south tower basically just opened. It isn’t quite full either. I do think the north tower will begin sooner than later. Based upon the residential component. I also think the city is really interested in the project. Because of it’s location they really want this project to have a great appearance,more than anything. It will be front and center in the “money shot” forever. It’s best to be a little picky on this one. Btw I like the last version best.

Kane jumped in and got things going,as usual. I think that has caused the Edison real issues. Another Skyhouse would work for me. Heck sell the lot to Mr Kane. He seems obviously can get things done. Hopefully North Hills was just the beginning. So he can come DT and get things done.

@ Mark
Agree with you I do…well put!

Don’t forget that Kane is getting a lot of money from the city to “purchase” public parking for the warehouse district and Union Station, which likely helped him get the project out of the ground in that it’s providing partial funding/collateral. Which is why the majority of the building is to be a parking deck.

And with offices, it’s best to be first to market. There are several proposals out there, but as has been stated most developers cannot go 100% spec on a downtown trophy tower/project, hence the early announcements to drive market and tenant interest for preleasing. That’s the case with Charter North. As someone stated here, they don’t want to compete for tenants between their own adjacent buildings (Charter South is around 60% occupied I think), plus Dominion (the developer of Charter Square) is also growing the Wade Office Park, which also needs an anchor tenant for the proposed 10-story building.

Kane does this too. Look at Building 3 (the one next to CapTrust) that has been advertised for a few years now. But he does have great, loyal financial partners which is one of his biggest assets. He moved on Tower 2 (Bank of America) and Tower 4 (Allscripts) in North Hills once he got an anchor tenant in hand.

I also think that demand for office space in downtown Raleigh was somewhat artificially handicapped by the maelstrom of corruption and crony capitalism known as the Duke-Progress Energy merger. Without Duke taking over, at least 1,000 Progress employees stay downtown, Progress keeps their building, and Red Hat builds from scratch or adapts an existing proposal such as the Edison to their needs. I believe Red Hat was already committed to downtown when the Progress building fell into their lap. I could be wrong about that, but that was my impression, and I think the impact on downtown from that merger has been overlooked in many discussions.

IMO, Raleigh has always been way too passive about its development, relying on its laurels to do its bidding. This needs to change in a big way because neither Durham nor Charlotte just sit around and wait for good things to happen. That’s just my 2 cents.

Yes John.. I agree.. Durham nor Charlotte are sitting around and waiting. That is why they are passing us by. Charlotte has more businesses, more buildings, more retail, grocery stores, professional sports teams, white water rafting, soon to have topgolf… durham is constantly opening new and exciting restaurants that are different than the norm, durham bulls, new hotels with roof top bars/restaurants, etc etc.. I bet charlotte will get a riverwalk first too. Why can Raleigh not get there? I see North Hills has taken off.. but why so long for downtown?

I don’t agree at all. Raleigh I’snt just sitting. It has massive developments underway. Durham isn’t passing Raleigh
at all lol. Raleigh’s restaurant scene is amazing. It’s getting a food hall next year. How has downtown not taken off?

I have no idea where these sitting around comments are coming from. New parks,transit centers,along with other great projects coming along. Don’t sound like sitting around to me.

I agree with Lover concerning Raleigh being ahead of Durham . I do hate to say that Charlotte IMO is way ahead of us ! We did completely lose out 40 + years ago on minor league baseball , but hopefully in the future , Raleigh/Atlantic League Baseball will happen ! All of you know my feelings on this ! Yes , The DPAC does beat our Duke/Progress Center downtown , but when you look @ hopefully the future projects will happen , Raleigh should really bust open @ the seems ! To me , it sounds like 301 Hillsborough St. Mr. Kane’s Project , Charter North , 10 story Tower @ Hillsborough St./Morgan St. , 12 story hotel @ Wilmington St./Lenior St., 10 story hotel already started on S. Salisbury St. , The N&O Site , Raleigh’s Gov’t Center on Hargett St., plus what I have missed , is really fantastic . I will say that I envy Durham’s 28 story tower project , but I think Raleigh is way ahead of Durham ! “Go Raleigh”!

What’s up with all of these 10-15 story buildings going up in dt raleigh. The marriot looks like it should have been put in North Raleigh or Cary. While the Charter looks nice, too small. Underwhelming. I root for Raleigh to become a world-class city, but am often disappointed.

Destination park for Dorthea Dix?….ugh. A total waste.

@ Dwight
I would add that the key word for Raleigh is “future”!
Downtown Raleigh’s promise is in it’s future. It doesn’t have a lot of the past to truly shout about. I feel that most people including myself haven’t seen a lot of progress, just some. I do see lots of promise (like in the afore mentioned list) that I hope comes to pass. I fear that when the Great Resession hit Raleigh was truly poised to take off…but then hit a kind of wall. Kind of like when First Citizens Bank imploded it’s former bank headquarters in favor of a bigger/taller building but ultimately decided to just sale it’s land and move to North Hills. So now financial institutions still don’t seem to be on board unless your a John Kane developer…very sad, IMHO…But I do have hope because I truly love Raleigh, especially downtown. ?

Thanks Robert , I love downtown Raleigh too !

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