The Four Sides to The Lincoln

The Lincoln Apartments, corner of East and Martin Streets

The Lincoln Apartments, corner of East and Martin Streets

Here’s a construction update on The Lincoln, an apartment building being built to the east of Moore Square. Some parts of the project have topped out, giving you a sense of how big it will be. The Martin Street half is busy finishing the parking deck and the units surrounding it will follow.

Enjoy the photos taken from each corner. A sign on the site says The Lincoln will be completed in Late Spring 2015.

The Lincoln Apartments, corner of Bloodworth and Martin Streets

The Lincoln Apartments, corner of Bloodworth and Martin Streets

The Lincoln Apartments, corner of Bloodworth and Hargett Streets

The Lincoln Apartments, corner of Bloodworth and Hargett Streets

The Lincoln Apartments, corner of East and Hargett Streets

The Lincoln Apartments, corner of East and Hargett Streets

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  1. No street level retail/restaurant space, huh? Kinda sad that developers don’t anticipate the (rapid) expansion of Raleigh. These big box cookie cutter apartments are fine. Not fantastic, but fine. However, they would be a little more than fine if used for something other than just loading up a bunch of overpriced apartment units. Put in some retail space! Might not fill in now, but give it a couple years (if that). Let this become the catalyst for a cool new neighborhood just outside of downtown! Oh well, maybe the next box they build will have a little more vision.

  2. This is quite a large apartment building. Definitely going to add some life to the area and potentially contribute to the customer base threshold for a new downtown grocery store. Although, I think this particular building may fall more within CV Teeter’s trade area.

  3. I’ve never taken notice of how far this area is from a grocery store. I imagine Harris Teeter must be nearing capacity with the influx of residents downtown.

  4. I thought that maybe retail spots were going into the corner of Bloodworth and Hargett facing downtown. Definitely a missed opportunity I think but the walk or bike ride to other places isn’t that big of a deal. I disagree though in making this area a cool new neighborhood; I think it’s find the way it is and that can be cool too. Grocery store in that area would be perfect for many reasons would be cooler still. I have a friend that lives in earshot of Lincoln construction and I think the view of DT is stellar and its a very quaint neighborhood.

  5. I like what that area has turned into. I can’t help but laugh though when I ride thru there now. I’m not sure how many of you guys are Raleigh natives. But that area was once called “The Block” for good reason. You could do,see,buy anything illegal that you could think of. Mind you that was 20 years ago. To say it was a rough area would be the under statement of the year. A friend of mines dad actually got stabbed in a dive bar that was located feet from where the Lincoln is going up. Raleigh has come a long way in the last 20 or so years thankfully.

  6. I am a huge proponent of Downtown Raleigh, but this is a bitch session:
    I was in downtown the past three days (business and entertaining). From the West End of downtown, you cannot see the Charter building over the Marriott (they could not add a few more floors! – to many buildings at same height, does not look right).
    Amazing – there are intersections in downtown where there are no street name signs to identify the street you are on (street signs/names are NOT visible from your car).

    Entertained Tuesday and Wednesday night. OMG! replace all the sidewalks in downtown Raleigh, NONE of them are level (embarrassing when you have people from out of town and walking streets).

    Get rid of that prison eyesore (level it and build an arena there)

  7. I’ve always wondered how we could get rid of the prison. It truly is an eyesore, that really needs to go.

  8. Yeah that was strange planning to build such a large prison next to the heart of DT. In the coming years, the land it’s sitting on is gonna be prime property though. Perhaps the state will be enticed to sell at some point.

  9. Any idea what the rent rates on these will be?
    Being on the east side I kinda am hoping that for once, we’ll have apartments downtown that aren’t ludicrously overpriced. But then again…I won’t hold my breath.

  10. The prison has been in Raleigh at that location for well over a 100 years, downtown was not even near the prison way back then. Raleigh was a very small city then, so it made sense to have it at that location. Still tons of land that can be developed in downtown other than the prison site.

  11. Yeah it’s actually fairly close to Cameron Village Harris Teeter, but anyone who shops there knows what a cluster it has become. I’d love to see a new grocery store deeper into downtown and by convention center or between warehouse district and Fayetteville St.

  12. I went on the City of Raleigh Home Page , clicked on Current Development , clicked on Raleigh Appearance Commission & saw where they have reviewed The Edison Office Tower twice . Wanted to let everyone know . Dwight Nipper

  13. Thats great news Dwight! Glad they are making progress. This would really add to Raleigh’s skyline.

  14. Adrian , Usually there are 3 reviews by the city , unless there are a lot of problems . The first review lists the problems that the city wants to be change , the second review should show that the developer has met these changes & the final review shows that everything has passed ,sewer , water , drainage , ect. I think I’m telling you right .I’m guessing on this assumption . The leasing must be doing good for the developer to be @ this stage with the city . Dwight Nipper

  15. “Chad on November 7, 2014 at 11:26 am
    I’ve always wondered how we could get rid of the prison. It truly is an eyesore, that really needs to go.”

    I’ve only been here a few years, but didn’t the prison get a $150MM facility added around 2009? Doesn’t seem like the state would have any motivation to move that. Looks like that land could have huge potential with the future park and train tracks surrounding it, though

  16. Bruce,
    The prison is North Carolina’s Maximum Security prison which houses the death row, serves as the entry point for any male into the prison system before being sent to other facilities, and the 150mil facility was the addition of a hospital complete with OR and mental health facility. Needless to say, the prison is here to stay.

  17. I was reading the 10-21-14 city council meeting minutes & saw where the council had a 20 minute closed session to discussed buying land between Western Blvd. & Lake Wheeler Rd. This was roughly the same area that the 10 year Raleigh Meeting Plan mention for the site for a downtown baseball/soccer stadium . “Go Baseball”! Dwight Nipper

  18. Baseball, not soccer! – no brainer (not buying tickets to soccer game to take a nap for 2.5 hours – boring and slow).
    Mudcat’s in downtown Raleigh, long overdue (I do not go to Bulls games anymore due to this pathetic 40 mile rule by the league – not a wise rule, Mudcat’s losing revenue with this rule, Bulls will do fine, even with Mudcat’s in downtown Raleigh). If Mudcat’s are in downtown Raleigh, I will attend MORE Mudcat games than I currently do, current Mudcat’s Stadium still to far to drive)

  19. I thought there was a law that said a baseball team couldn’t move within a certain distance of another (thats why the Mudcats are way out in the middle of nowhere….Raleigh was too close to Durham). I really hope thats not the case because baseball in downtown Raleigh would be a hit (pun intended). Especially with the all the new residents that will be living there sooner rather than later. Also, I thought that piece of land was technically part of the Dix site (the southwest side). Are you referring to another corner? Thanks!

  20. Everyone : I hope that I’m not leading anyone in the wrong direction . All I know is that David Diaz told me @ the 10 year downtown plan that he has already & is currently talking to Mr. Goodnight about baseball in downtown Raleigh . He said that if this didn’t work out that Raleigh would pursue a soccer team because Pro Soccer is expanding 4 new teams . The 10 year plan does show a site in the area that I mention & I don’t know who owns the property . When I saw that the council had the closed session about a site between Western Blvd. & Lake Wheeler Rd. , I assumed it might be for a stadium . I hope for the best . Dwight Nipper

  21. No! The closed door meeting is where they are discussing buying the Dix land from the State of NC! For a park.

    10 year downtown plan shows a potential sports facility at the NE corner of the MLK & South Saunders intersection. Duke Energy owns that land now.

    Yes, MLS is expanding, but just about all of the expansion spots are claimed and Raleigh isn’t one of them. I wonder if the RailHawks (NASL) would consider moving to downtown Raleigh.

    Baseball is a better bet. If baseball were proposed, there would easily be an exception given for the proximity rule. It is outdated for this area. However, baseball is boring and losing popularity in the US.

  22. Can anyone point to the source for this ‘proximity rule’ ? I’m a big baseball fan and have never seen or heard of it outside of discussion about baseball in downtown Raleigh. I can point to 10-15 minor league teams that are within 40 miles of another team (some of which are MILB teams close to MLB teams),

  23. IF we get baseball, we had better aim for an MLB team – bringing a minor league team to downtown would just be….. lame, for lack of a better term. Same with soccer, minor league or pro, doesn’t matter there. Plus, NC already has NFL (Panthers), NBA (Hornets – HA HA HA), and NHL (Hurricanes) – we’re missing one of the big four! MLB all the way! Bringing the Mudcats to downtown Raleigh would be incredibly pointless and *yawwwn,* excuse me, boring. If we want to keep making Raleigh a destination city, a tourist attraction at large, minor league is NOT the way to go…… nor is any form of soccer. I might be biased, but, well there you go.

  24. I have to agree with Jake. At least partially. MLB or nothing. I like the Mudcats but in that PRIME DT gateway location no way. I would actually be ok with a MLS team though. No Rail Hawks or Mudcats in that prime location please! If there was another location for the minor league teams DT that’s a great idea.

    My personal hope is move the Canes DT. Try to get a Arena Football team. Let State have PNC. Unless I’ve missed none of the 4 major sports are expanding. So this might be our best bet.

  25. Let’s be realistic. MLB should not be in Carolina at all. No way it belongs in Charlotte. Charlotte cannot even support two LONG TIME awful teams (plus, Panthers will be purchased and moved in 10-15 years). Triangle (4) Division I teams are so much better to have and watch than having one sad NBA team like the Bobcats.
    Greensboro, well, enough said, it’s Greensboro (they are never going to be a pro team area, just a awful atmosphere in Greensboro for sports).

    Raleigh: do not need it. how many people in any area of NC are going to support 45,000 seats for 81 games? pro baseball is slow, boring and a second full time job as a season ticket holder.
    Ideal situation, Canes and State play in NEW downtown arena and the Mudcat’s build a Class A facility in downtown Raleigh (with entertainment district and shopping around both stadiums).
    MLB: watching baseball live or on TV is a dying sport.

  26. Josh,

    For one, there are no teams looking to move that I know of (maybe the Rays?) and MLB is not going to expand. This market is not big enough to fill a MLB stadium over 81 game home schedule. Like John said, there are too many college athletics to compete with in this market. I, however, don’t think baseball is boring but too many people these days do. Baseball is much more convenient to watch on tv. Only the huge markets really put enough people in the seats anymore. Raleigh wouldn’t come close. I agree with John, bring the Mudcats downtown as part of a mini entertainment district.

    But as far as the Canes and Pack moving to a downtown arena, I don’t see that happening. The lease for the PNC goes at least 10 years from now if not longer.

  27. PS. Even if a team were to want to move, there would be about a dozen bigger markets that would be ahead of us in line to draw a team too.

  28. Daniel, it would definitely be for the Canes. We are at least 10 years away from a downtown arena anyway.

    Those Lincoln apartments… yes, good. (Back on topic?)

  29. I personally don’t think locating a major sports franchise downtown would be a good thing. Our city is quickly becoming known as an area that’s refreshingly different. Why spoil it by bringing pro sports here with all of the corporatist mumbo jumbo that goes along with it?

    In reality “our” team would be owned by a billionaire who would gladly extract whatever price the market would bear for tickets, an owner who would likely extort us with threats of moving “our” team elsewhere should we not pay for major upgrades to a stadium that sits idle most of the time on valuable downtown real estate. Just ask the good folks over in Charlotte about this.

    Let’s be different. I’d much rather see folks sporting locally made Raleigh Denim jeans than wearing “Officially licensed” NFL merch. The thought of that is enough to make me want to puke.

  30. no way a MLB team would move here, the Durham Bulls cannot even sell out most games. We are a small market. I had heard that the old rule that existed was when the Durham Bulls and the Mudcats were in the same league and both AA and that was why they could not be that close to one another. Since then the Bulls have moved to AAA and the Mudcats A. Of any sport, I could see a baseball stadium downtown for the mudcats. I would hate to see us spend a ton of money on a stadium when they bring very little to a city or its downtown financially.

  31. If I’m not mistaken, the Bulls were in the A Carolina League and the Columbus, Ga. Mudcats were in the AA Southern League and wanted to move to Raleigh. Miles Wolff, the Bulls owner at the time, refused to give the Mudcats a waiver on the 35-mile radius claus and the Mudcats built a stadium in Zebulon.

  32. If the Mudcats are the best that we can do DT. Why even waist the effort. People complain about small time ideas DT. A ball DT seems small time to me.

  33. I will cast a lone vote for MLS. It’s different from the usual pro sports franchises, culturally, and I think it’s actually a very logical fit for the Triangle. It fills the vacuum for sports but keeps Raleigh from just following in the footsteps of other mid sized cities.

    As far a MLB is concerned, the Bulls should simply go major.

  34. Actually I’m with you Vatnos. I think an MLS team downtown would be great and the place to build the stadium would be on S. Wilmington St. at the Cargill plant site. If S. Blount St. were closed and properties on the east included (Bonded Warehouse, etc.) there would be sufficient room. Turn this area into a big urban renewal project. Getting rid of Cargill and the Kings Hotel, etc. would do wonders for the South Park neighborhood. There is existing rail here which would make future mass transit service very easy to add. The city already owns adjacent properties. The land to the South is in a flood plane but could possibly be utilized for ball fields? Turn this entire area into a big sports complex for the city to enjoy.

    I’d imagine it would take a tidy sum to buy out Cargill and adjacent property owners but this investment would pay off in the form of increased tax values along S. Wilmington and in South Park.

  35. This is just me thinking ! Keep the big crane @ SkyHouse & start “The Edison Tower” ! But I actually rather see Charter Square North Tower start first because I like the location better.
    Dwight Nipper

  36. Wouldnt they have to move the cranes a couple hundred feet over to start on the other towers? Charter Square’s crane is coming up through the building itself. Maybe Im wrong, but I think they would have to take the cranes down anyways to move them over.

  37. I strongly support the construction, but I was just trying to be realistic. like I said though, I could be wrong! Didnt mean to kill your buzz! :)

  38. No problem Josh , I just want to keep them on location & see the start of both towers in 2015.
    “A New Years Wish”! Dwight Nipper

  39. Anyone know when the hotels (next to convention center and across from the ugly L Building) are braking ground?

    Anyone know who owns the corner on F Street (where that barber shop and florist are located)?
    Is the corner opposite this lot facing Wilmington Street owned by Progress/Duke Energy?
    That whole lot (both together) is prime location for a 40+ story office/hotel building.

  40. re: Jonathan

    If you want information on real estate ownership check out iMAPS. This is Wake County’s GIS system that shows parcel ownership, dimensions, price paid, etc. It also includes photos (street shots) taken over a period of time.

  41. Re Jonathan : If you google , click on Business & Development , click on Current Development on the left side of page , & click on SP-59-14 & this will give a lot of info. 9 stories/117 ft. high ect. Hope this helps . Dwight Nipper

  42. Site plan submitted so construction should start January at latest unless they have some lending reason to start in December. This project has been vetted ad nauseum by the city council, especially the late Thomas crowder so I can’t see any more “material” hurdles to begin the project soon.

  43. Stew and Dwight: Thx for the information.

    I saw the rendering of the hotel near the convention center. It’s just OK, except for the West facing side, it looks like a vertical factory, this is another architect, who should never have been an architect (this firm is a joke). This design should not be approved. These architects, developers and members of the city council should be fired for this design.

    This box garbage has to stop in downtown Raleigh, this is not the burbs!!!

  44. Jonathan – with all the cookie cutter apt buildings either in progress or planned – we won’t see an end to box city anytime soon. On the bright side, at least people are building.

  45. You can’t deny building permits based on looks. I can’t stress this enough. The plans that are reviewed are bad enough and this council wants these ugly projects. Also Council is under pressure to get more hotel rooms to support the money losing convention center. It has lost money ever since it opened. The apartments surrounded by pool is cheap and the dollar rules. As with retail on the 1st floor look at The West and others that have taken 5 years to rent out that space. That is space someone lost $$$ for years. These are 30-50 million dollar projects. in 2 years all you will hear is who approved all these apartments near Crabtree Mall with all that traffic mess??? who?

  46. the best designed building was 510 Glenwood. Retail first floor then offices to separate retail bars from condo/apartments. Look at how much turnover the have had in that retail space. I wouldn’t live in one of these stick built apartments for free. Noise issues. 425 Boylan (Devon?) is concrete which is why long time to complete but no noise between floors. Skyhouse is concrete as is Paramount. No grocery store and no belks downtown. City should have done whatever was needed to keep Belks there. They threw $$$ at Redhat and Citrix why not belks? Why not grocery store?

  47. BC, please show your factual support that the convention center has “lost money” as you contend

  48. Why not belks? Seriously? Because all the grandmothers who would shop at a belks have died. Not to mention the hourly workers compared to the six-figure employees downtown that work for RedHat and Citrix

  49. @Jesse: spin it how you will but when you pay someone to come then it isn’t paying for itself no matter how you spin it. Hope link works if not google raleigh civic center loses

    Belks and the Hallmark store were great downtown. Ask anyone who works and lives downtown!!! I do and retail is where it is at!!!! Its just restaurants & bars, Nothing wrong with it but retail attracts customers. Doubt me go to Videri Chocolate on West Davie. You will love the chocolate but experience retail. :)

  50. BC, it’s a little hard to take your comments seriously when you write like a 6-year-old. Anyways, I wanted to address the convention center claim. The point of it being built was to bring people downtown to spend money on hotels, restaurants, bars, taxis, etc. which generates tax revenue for the city, and to help revitalize downtown in general (thus generating even more new businesses, development, and revenue) This is exactly what has happened. The “unprofitable convention center” argument is akin to the “unprofitable public transit” argument, in that it misses the larger picture and true purpose.

    Also, Belk? I think I bought a tie there once in the 5+ years I’ve lived in Raleigh. I agree we need more retail downtown, and not high-priced niche boutiques, but surely an Urban Outfitters, H&M, movie theater, grocery store, etc. would be a better fit.

  51. Jeff, BC – play nice! I can understand both of your points. But I definitely do agree that downtown reeeeeally doesn’t need a Belk HAHA. Jeff; I have heard from three separate sources now (including someone who works at UO in Southpoint) that Urban Outfitters are seeking out a space in Downtown. I think this would be great. I would much prefer to see mom & pop type stores and local boutiques (like Estate Boutique, Social Status, Deco, Father & Son, Sorry State Records, Schoolkids Records, Nice Price Books & Music, Stitch, FeelGoodz, Quercus, Lumina, the new Edge of Urge shop, etc etc) but I think that if UO opened a store in downtown (fingers crossed for two stories!), it would encourage more retail to move here. I would just worry that it might encourage the wrong kind of retail (i.e: big chain corporation $$$$$$$$$$$$ b.s.) – but with UO I have a good feeling (Asheville has a UO but still PLENTY of local shops and boutiques to keep it unique and interesting). A downtown movie theater (besides the IMAX) would be awesome, & a grocery store is just inevitable these days. From what I’ve been told, retail is the last thing to boom in a booming city, simply because retail requires a LOT of foot traffic. People PLAN to go to a restaurant, which Raleigh has in spades, but most retail revenue is from people just walking by and going “whoa! This place looks cool, let’s check it out!” So with the abundance of new apartments and hotels going up, there will be much more foot traffic in the years to come, and I think we will start to see more and more retail thrive. However, look up at that list of current shops I’ve already named! We’re off to a GREAT start!

  52. @Jake, I agree that DT needs anchor tenants. I can totally see an UA doing well DT and I can envision it in that building that’s catty corner to the Hibernian. Not only is the size about right, the vibe of the building works as well. The life that would bring to the area would far exceed its current use as a fitness studio.
    Even bigger of an impact, I can imagine a return of Crate&Barrel as an anchor to a larger retail complex to built somewhere. With all the new housing stock online and being constructed, this one is a no brainer as both a destination and as support for the local neighborhood.
    I agree that a multilevel, multiscreen cinema is inevitable. Before too long, someone is going to realize that providing such an amenity only increases the evening and weekend viability of DT to include earlier evening hours and weekend daytime. It’s also a way to add parking as such a cinema project would require an adjacent deck for non-neighborhood patrons. Just imagine being able to come to DT for dinner, a movie and then bar hopping. That’s a big night that would appeal to a lot of people. Add some destination shopping into the mix and you have a huge winner.

  53. I would love to see the Raleigh Memorial Aud. leveled and continue F Street through to the other side of Western Blvd/Martin Luther.

    That memorial bldg. building in the middle of F Street has to go (plus it adds no value, the venue does not get continuous foot traffic and the show schedule is very poor – DPAC is embarrassing the management of Memorial Aud with their performance schedules year in and year out).

    Level Raleigh Memorial facility and build a new Raleigh Memorial somewhere else downtown, ideally, the warehouse district/arts district.

  54. Master plan the performing arts center to improve Memorial Auditorium. Close it for a year to renovate. At the end of the day, a renovated Memorial to compete is the best strategy since it, combined with the other halls in the complex, would be the only true performing arts center in the Triangle. DPAC isn’t comprehensive and its concourse and bathroom situation suck….as do many seats on the upper tier.

  55. I’ve only been there once in the 5+ years in Raleigh, when I first moved here. I think it could use some love. DPAC is way better, and they’re making renovations now to address some of those things you just mentioned. Plus a cool looking Aloft Hotel is being built right there. We have… that boring Marriott and the dead end of Fayetteville St.

  56. face it…Raleigh is just simply Dull. folks talk about all the shops and resteraunts downtown and i have yet to see such excitement that goes on. A Sports arena Downtown,what’s so bad about that, but one do need to have a great team that would play. Canes, they are Ok…a baseball stadium or Basketball stadium would be nice. movie theaters around downtown wouldn’t hurt. Who the Hell is going to see a Soccer game,not everyone likes soccer you know.You have everything so spread out,developers need to build more of the things that i mentioned downtown so that you have folks going downtown to Shop….see a movie…go bowling..etc. Pretty Soon the folks that are moving to Raleigh will soon leave to go someplace else.

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