Food Hall and Market in the works for Warehouse District

Former Buckhead Saloon space.

Empty warehouse at 117 South West Street.

This week, the folks at the Hibernian Company announced plans for a and market in an empty warehouse on West Street. This space was formerly the short-lived Buckhead Saloon but was really made popular when Jillian’s was in there for (I think??) over ten years.

There’s no name for the spot yet but the new market will house a variety of food vendors, a food court, and event space across the 21,000 square feet of warehouse. The group is hoping to open in Spring of 2017.

Comments

If this wonderful idea actually takes flight, I hope that the entire building including the outside gets a remodel. It needs something to say “welcome”, instead of the current door on a brick box with a painted sign…IMHO

If we are going with something new I would prefer something more like Copenhagen’s Torvehallerne (and feel it would fit Raleigh better than other options)

http://torvehallernekbh.dk/

That Philadelphia Terminal Market would be a great model to follow. I really hope the retail incubator portion of this project matches the ambitions of the food court, though. This could be a great catalyst for more retail in Raleigh.

IMO, TBJ subscription costs are high for what you get. To make matters worse, you pay the same for just the digital content as you do for the paper delivery and the digital content.

@ Jake , The pre-plans are in to the city on Charter North . The Edison might start sometime in the fall .

@Dwight -“might” start in the fall… hahaha I won’t hold my breath!

Keep the comparisons and what-to-shoot-for food court stuff coming in ya’ll…this is giving me ideas for places to go visit 🙂 Also the strip in Pittsburg came to mind, and though we don’t have a strip to work with, perhaps this could nudge the entire warehouse district in a strip-like direction…I realize most of the WHD is occupied (Yay!) but the Dillion’s retail spaces will hopefully remain warehouse-y in whatever they attract….authentic, bootstrap type operations and not say a Rite Aid and a Starbucks. A few other spots have potential like Boyette’s sweet corner spot, the old porn shop on Hargett and I know the City is working towards selling off some of its Harrington facing parking lots.

@Mark – this is kinda what I had in my head when I read about the retail incubator part: https://foursquare.com/v/williamsburg-mini-mall/4b80d33af964a520fb8d30e3 The Williamsburg Mini-Mall in Brooklyn, NY

This new project isn’t going to be conducive to chain stores. I think it will be great and I’m very excited to see who takes advantage of it. I hope the food court takes some of the talent we have in the local food truck scene and lets them take advantage of a proper kitchen scenario. There are a lot of good cooks who can’t afford to run a full restaurant that would fit into this concept perfectly. Given the success of places like Artspace and the Carter Building, I think the retail component will be fine too. It’s the perfect place for quirky little shops to thrive.

I disagree with Mark’s notion that the entire Warehouse District should be kept chain free. Quite frankly we need a few chains to draw in foot traffic. Besides shops that have built a following online like Raleigh Denim and Decco’s hard to replicate success of becoming a nationally acclaimed gift shop/destination, there are few places which can generate the pull to serve as anchors for a retail distract which aren’t chains. I am thankful Ace Hardware is holding down a spot at Seaboard Station and that CVS + Kimbrells have persevered longer than almost any other retail downtown. I’d be happy if something like a Target Express or a small-to-mid sized grocer would take do more than express subtle interest. We’d already have something if their was a demand to sustain it. Unfortunately, Raleigh’s real estate market is the thing that has proven not to be worth it for those only interested in profit. Time and time again we have seen empty ground floor retail sit dormant until taken over by a bar, restaurant, lobby expansion, or office space. Until rents go down and more residents move in don’t expect that to change.

@Jake, thats pretty sweet. It brings to mind a place in Ithica NY called Dewitt Mall. Its the lower level of an old school. It is bookended by the Greenstar food co-op on one end and the Moosewood vegetarian restaurant on the other, with things like a guitar shop and used book store (the Bookery) inside as well. It doesn’t have a website of its own but you can google pics if interested. I believe it’s comparable in size to the Jillians space though in my heart, tenant wise Dewitt feels more like something Durham would embrace and not the prevailing Raleigh vibe, though perhaps Raleigh is actually dying inside for something like Dewitt. I know quite a few folks who are like “why the effing hell doesn’t Raleigh have a co-op?!”. Anyway, thanks again for the link.

LHOOQ, I’m certainly not militant about keeping out chains, and all chains are not the same. But for reference points, its easy to see a huge difference between say Alberta Ave in Portland OR and Michigan Ave in Chicago. We’re already seeing the places that made downtown cool and interesting packing up and moving farther out or at least getting press time regarding the difficulties of staying open in a high rent environment that downtown is becoming. Some chains, on top of just regular old retail success driving up rent, also will drive up rents. Perhaps the new Jillians idea will provide the locals a place to flee to. My thoughts on the empty retail spots is simply that despite the obvious growth in residents downtown, there still weren’t enough to support a diverse retail mix. Also our retail physical environment is poor, with huge gaps between small chunks of storefronts. Over and over again in other forums I lament the loss of historic structures that provided the long continuous strips retail space that allows for self supporting retail density. Perhaps you’re correct that with those limitations we *need* a small chain concept or two to round out things. But I am cautious because what I like about the warehouse district is its current locally driven diversity. The fact that big bland chains don’t show up until ‘it’s safe to make a profit’ kind of drives me nuts. Locals made it cool to be here. Now they show up and potentially kill it off. Its like the tear down of cute houses in east five points…those houses made the area what it is, and now people with deep pockets show up and demolish what made it cool and interesting in the first place… .but I digress. If the warehouse district can become “thriving” and full of a good retail mix with as little blandness as possible, that is what I’d prefer.

@Mark – I am picking up 100% of what you are laying down right now, and I worry about this a lot, too. Like, it’d be sweet to have a Barnes and Noble or something downtown along with a bunch of small, indie (aka locally owned) shops surrounding it, but really only B&N can afford the rent prices that are plaguing our city right now. So if a big store, like B&N for instance, comes in and puts up a shop, more chains are likely to follow instead. And since big box chains are the only companies that can really afford current retail rent prices, that’s what will eventually fill up all the empty spots… unless the city can somehow get a handle on it and regulate retail rent prices. I just don’t know if that’s necessarily something a city gov’t can do. (??)

I’ve always said I would like to see Raleigh go the direction of Asheville in terms of retail: a couple big chain stores to bring in the suckers (Urban Outfitters, B&N, Apple, I’m sure there’s an American Apparel/similar there), surrounded by locally owned small businesses and mom n pop shops. One or two chains would bring enough suckers who will then meander to the smaller shops out of pure curiosity, and in turn bring success to the smaller shops as well.

I think it’s fantasy to think that our downtown retail scene can exist without chains. With very few exceptions, it’s not reasonable to expect retail to work without it. That said, I don’t think it has to be all chains or crappy chains rather key destination shopping that will bring in crowds for one store and stay for the others, entertainment options and dining. Among these chains should be a multi-screen cinema. My wish list would also include an Apple Store, Crate&Barrel (return to Raleigh), mini-Target, a full service grocer or at least a Fresh Market or Trader Joe’s., more Walgreen’s or CVS’s that run 24X7 and either an H&M or Gap. Then I’d like to see them surrounded by local shops and services that primarily support the walkable community. Two areas seem to make the most sense for this to happen and they are the Harrington/West corridor of Glenwood South and the Warehouse District. The Food Hall might be a bit early but would be an excellent addition to a shopping experience in this sort of environment.
While I would never want to halt the construction of new housing, there is a need for some balance in support of all the new residents that will fill them up. This is especially true for Glenwood South where The Gramercy, Link and the Greyhound project will soon add hundreds and hundreds of new residents to the ones already there in the relatively tiny district.

I ‘d just like to reinforce the position that I’m only speaking of my personal preference, and speaking regarding preference concerning the WHD, not downtown as a whole. I’ve also long thought (but never said) that Urban Outfitters (Boylan Pearce Building), American Apparel (Coglins space), Crate and Barrel (Oxford’s old space), and the like, would fit nicely onto Fayetteville in perhaps the spaces I put in parenthesis. I also think the Harrington/West pair is perfect for things like a large grocery store and other general retail as its right near a good number or residential units and visible from Capital Blvd. Having said that, I continue to stand by my preference that the WHD remain the primary incubator of arts, local artisans and the like (Person St. being a solid second area)

It’s interesting to read this as I was just in Philly’s Terminal Market last month. That’s a fun place and much needed in a downtown area.

The city is discussing building a central campus downtown to combined all 1,100 downtown employees . The three sites are all downtown , that is being considered . The info. is on the work session minutes for March 8th. meeting .

@ Dwight Link?

@ Mark , Google raleighnc.gov go to home page , click on government , click on council agenda , click on Work Meeting on March 8th . Mark , I’m guessing on this , this may be on the agenda for the council meeting on Tues. March 15th.

@Mark – I think Dwight attends the City Council meetings from time to time. Perhaps he heard the news first-hand instead of reading about it somewhere? Here’s a link to minutes. The most current minutes are from 03/01/2016. I think it generally takes the city several days to get minutes published.

https://www.raleighnc.gov/government/content/BoardsCommissions/Articles/CityCouncil.html#CityCouncilAgendas

@Dwight – Thanks for reporting this exciting news. I look forward to learning more about this.

WRAL had a story on this I think Tuesday evening. Said the city was considering something where the city hall/old PD is located to consolidate most of the dt city employees.

Hopefully they will blow up the entire block and start over. The entire block is an embarrassment to the City, Police, and Fire Department

@ Mark & Stew , Stew , if you go on the site that you listed here & under Council Agendas, click on the second Tuesday agenda , it will show March 8th work session minutes . Scroll down past Six Forks Rd. Project & it will give all the info. on the three sites that the city is looking at .

Current rumor on New Raleigh is that the Southland Ballroom property that was bought and is being demolished by Kane will include a Publix in the new plans.

Saturday’s N&O has a good article on a possible
downtown city complex !

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