112 Comments

  1. I’m in for this! I love the idea of Halifax Mall serving as an actual event/gathering space. This corner of DT is as sleepy as it gets, and with Smokey Hollow and Peace/Capital renovations happening, this fits in perfectly. Well done.

  2. Simply terrific. As a downtown resident, I’ve always wondered why more focus hasn’t been placed on activating Halifax Mall. It’s a gem green space in downtown and holds incredible potential. Love the addition of the high-rise towers overlooking the stadium. This holds real potential to move the bar in so many meaningful ways for the development of downtown.

    Old guard personalities step aside, please. This is progressive, well thought out growth. Something Raleigh desperately needs to elevate our city.

    Let’s make it happen.

  3. As for ingress/egress, the proposed stadium sits right beside existing RR. Any chance a LR station is built to ferry people over from Union Station?

  4. Seaboard Station is just across the street. Would love to see that reactivated as a light/commuter rail stop.

  5. Quite an ambitious project that involves a lot of government facilities. Definitely exciting, but seems like a stretch!

  6. Malik and team have been working on this for over 6 months and hasn’t shared any info until now. I think its probably safe to say at this point, that unless they felt very strongly that they could get all the pieces and partners to work together to get this done, they would not have shared it this publicly.

  7. With Mr. Malik , Mr. Kane, & Mr. Goodmon Sr.all on the same team , I think the stadium is a Go Item ! This baseball fan is certainly pulling for Raleigh / MLS Project !

  8. This past June, 2015 CBRE completed an in-depth analysis of State-owned Real Estate (RFP No. 13-JB18236653) to assist the State with its real estate planning and to make recommendations for re-purposing State owned assets for either private development or other State use.

    While the report doesn’t outright recommend the demo of Archdale it does stress the need for increased density of the government complex. If I’m reading the report correctly the Archdale needs a major renovation (to the tune of $107 million) to meet modern office standards that would allow for such increased density.

    Perhaps this proposal of tearing down the Archdale isn’t so far-fetched after all? Kane is a major player. If there’s anyone who can put $107Mil to good use on a modern office project it’s him. The state seems primed to move forward in a big way.

    http://www.ncleg.net/DocumentSites/committees/JLPEOC/Subcommittees/Real%20Property%20Subcommittee/Minutes%20and%20Handouts/08-24-15/CBRE%20Report.pdf

  9. Like the pedestrian bridge idea for Peace and would like to see a step further with a light rail stop and walkways that bridge Peace street and Capital, it could feed to Seaboard, the Stadium, Smokey Hollow. Curious to see where this whole thing goes.

  11. This looks amazing! I agree with Dwight. We have some heavy hitters as part of this project, with Kane, Goodmon and Malik. Also, NCGOP in the GA and Governor Cooper have expressed their support of the project. City of Raleigh and Wake County have also publicly supported it.

    The issue is making sure the public supports it.

    Go NCFC!

  12. This is exciting news and a big opportunity. I’m looking forward to hearing what is said tonight at the rally.

  13. I Have to agree, Although I’m not a huge Soccer fan, But this would really Put Raleigh on the map and skyrocket Downtown Raleigh as a true destination. Praying that this becomes a reality, So much potential here that will transform the Capital District of Downtown Raleigh, and also Praying that City and government officials get on board with this project and make it real. fingers cross.

  14. I’m actually more interested in the ground level retail and restaurant space. Not seeing that in the rendering? Would hate to see this area continue to be a dead zone when there aren’t events.

  15. This is very exciting and is well positioned to make a big impact on downtown. I’m dreaming, but when I look at the rendering I’m envisioning a huge and iconic pedestrian bridge across both the tracks and Capital Blvd that would connect the stadium/Seaboard Station with Glenwood South since the pedestrian experience along Peace is pretty bad without much prospect for significant improvement. Looking forward to supporting the effort at the rally tonight.

  16. So I made it to the rally. Very well attended with much excitement in the air. Managed to snag a free beer. Briefly spoke to Steve Malik, wished him luck.

    The highlight was meeting one of our very own. Dwight, it was a pleasure talking with you!!!

  17. @Stew , The very same here Stew ! My Pleasure ! It was Awesome ! I do hope that this Project will happen ! I also got to speak to Mr . Malik , Mr. Johnson & WTVD Andrea Langford ! Love the big screen Raleigh Skyline !

  18. I don’t want to disappoint, but if I remember correctly Raleigh will not be getting light rail. Raleigh will probably get heavy rail within maybe 20+ years…

    But all in all a great plan for downtown Raleigh IMHO! :-)

  22. I want to see rail as much as the next guy but it’s not the end all, be all in my opinion. I’ll take as much urban and walkable development as I can get and this sort of project in that particular location will activate even more of it across the northern swath of downtown. With this stadium, the possibility for Seaboard Station is tremendous and the Smokey Hollow development might even grow. I can now see more hotels for the greater Glenwood South area.
    I’ll tell ya, I am really glad I wrote that pre-renovation contract for my Cotton Mill unit back in late 1993! That thing is looking better every day with Devereux Meadow being restored to a park, Smokey Hollow going in catty corner, HT going into Seaboard and now the possibility of this stadium just southeast of it.

  23. One additional aspect of this location I really like is the minimal level of “NIMBY-ism” that’s likely to be generated (relatively speaking). Adjacent properties are either commercial or governmental neither of which is likely to object to the additional noise and traffic this site will surely generate.

    Neighborhoods proper with all of their typical concerns and problems are just far enough away … hopefully we can steer clear of endless public hearings and debate.

  24. Very good point Stew! Even evening concerts at the venue are unlikely to cause too many problems

  25. The high resolution rendering is great. It appears the background image is about 6 months old. The Dillon is just a couple of stories tall with a crane and the Metropolitan is not there but the parking deck is present.

    I worry that working with the state of NC will be difficult and that the disdain that much of the membership of the General Assembly has for Raleigh will be an issue. I am comforted in knowing that several diverse power brokers including Kane and Goodman are involved.

  26. Chris, I agree that we should be seeing some leasable storefront space on the outside of the stadium activating Salisbury and Peace. It appears they have a 40 ft. wide paver path and 40 ft. wide green space between stadium and Salisbur, plenty of space for shops/restaurants.

    As for rail, commuter rail is part of the Wake Transit Plan with recommended stops at Garner, Union Station, NCSU, DT Cary, Morrisville, RTP, Durham, and Duke. From union station there could be shuttles running a loop to the stadium and back. I hope it doesn’t take 20+ years to get rail transit, as it will surely be obsolete before it’s built via human-carrying drones and unforeseen modes of transit. But this brings up an interesting point:

    In the One Glenwood promo video they denote a planned light rail platform at what appears to be Hargett st. and the RR tracks. Do they know something we don’t, or is this something their lawyers said they could fib on since it’s only planned, not promised?

    https://vimeo.com/220392841/36f2c123f4

  28. @Jonathan. You bring up an interesting point regarding prospects of working with the GA. This is a concern for me as well and I suppose it’s anyone’s guess as to how this will play out.

    I did a quick Google search and was able to obtain what I believe is the correct article detailing how a lease might be approved.

    – Department of Administration and the Gov are responsible for approval provided lease does not exceed 30 years, otherwise the GA must approve. Concurrent leases can’t be used as a way to get around this.
    – The sale or lease must be at fair market value. If there ever was a stumbling block to slow down the process this has to be it!

    http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_146/Article_7.pdf

  29. Not a soccer fan, but this is exciting (and I would go some games after I FIRST and foremost support my season ticket Canes games). I hope this happens, amazing plan and opportunity (great team behind this effort).
    Can you imagine (and Raleigh is the only place in NC for soccer!!! – Raleigh should be one of 4 MLS teams selected) when this is built and potential new owner of Canes takes over (I can imagine he will push for a downtown Arena as he did for Penguins – and I favor a downtown arena as slong as its in the right location to have parking around the arena, cannot remove our fan base tailgating experience that is one of a KIND in the NHL).

    Having the NHL Canes and MLS team in downtown Raleigh, that is huge!!!!!
    Two major sports teams (and two that fit very well with Raleigh/Triangle, we do not need the awful product that is NBA and the NFL (NFL product is getting very bad, that is a TV sport – with very few good teams)and all the University teams, this area can and will be able to support, the growth here is SICK!!!!!
    Good luck MLS Raleigh.

  30. seen some comments about the new tower shown next to secu. its a rendering error of the wake co. justice bldg.

  31. @Anthony slow your role with naming the NBA and NFL as a bad product. Everybody can have their opinion but an extreme one like that should be tossed around cautiously to say the least.

    Anyways, i absolutely love the rendering. I also have a gut feeling that their has been so much confidence in this presentaion from those involved because they truly do have about as much already lined up as they can. Even though it seems like a massive undertaking to pull a stadium at that location off, i would bet money that Mr.Malik has a solid plan that can do it.

    My biggest fear personally is that MLS will simply not choose us as one of the 4. We’re the smallest market with an already hurting pro team in one of the other lower popularity sports. College dominates this regions interest it seems and i fear MLS is going to be looking hard at that aspect.

  32. MLS in Raleigh would be huge, as well as the stadium. One of the Major reasons the Canes have no following is the Stadium location as well as the crappy product they put on the ice. The Nashville Preds are a good example of what a great Stadium location can do for the popularity of a team. There is no nightlife or culture around the Canes stadium, unless you consider the fleamarket culture.

  34. What is so Bad about NBA or a MLB in Raleigh??? Not everyone loves or is a College sports fan. Nothing wrong with college sports, but what happens when college football or basketball season ends, then what? (yarn).The state would be pretty stupid to say no to a Stadium for MLS in Raleigh.The more I think about it,a major soccer team in Raleigh would be one shot in the arm for downtown,and tourism for that matter. Again, I’m not a big fan of soccer but I would really support this and pray that it becomes a reality.

  36. @ Maverick

    MLB in Raleigh (or Durham) would be amazing. Especially as more and more people move to Wake Co. If we are getting 50,000 new people in just Wake Co, per year, there will be a demand for major sports teams. In 10 years there is a good chance Raleigh will be built up like Nashville is today. We cannot have a city that big without a downtown sports team.

  37. re: ‘charlotte usa’ legislators are now whining about Raleigh’s bid.

    Allegations of NC State Gov’t playing favorites with the City of Raleigh is nothing new especially when allegations are being leveled by the City of Charlotte. Howls decrying the “unfair” appropriation of highway funds immediately comes to mind. Those legislators need to consider the condition of Raleigh’s north downtown area before getting up on their high horses.

  38. I remember Charlottean Pat McCrory complaining that the state wouldn’t pay for highway lights on all of 485, when Raleigh’s beltline didn’t have any!

  39. Trent, I wish I knew! We are all abuzz with speculation.
    Other State Government goings on add to the possibilities such as the DHHS campus being sped up, DEQ being downsized yet again, etc etc.

  40. The Archdale Building would be replaced by two new state office buildings, according to the N&O. Also a historic building would be moved. Total cost was projected to be $750 million. Almost anything would be better than state-owned parking decks and decrepit offices. With Malik, Kane and Goodman we have a lot of political money for both parties.

  41. https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2017/07/20/why-raleigh-organizers-for-the-mls-bid-chose-the.html?ana=fbk

    Very excited that Raleigh is in the running for a MLS team, but do we really believe this location is going to work? And i’m talking about people who live near by and use Peace every day to get in and out of Raleigh.

    I believe they used that location in the pitch bc it provided no hurdles. The land is state owned (so there is no real question on whether or not they could purchase it). This is probably so the MLS feels like there are no outstanding questions about the proposal. It’s also a nice area to tour and show out of towners. That part of Raleigh is nice, safe, but simply under developed.

    The problem is access and parking. There is just no room right there for the type of traffic and congestion that the stadium will cause.

    I think, if you read the article, what Kaine is hinting at, is that if Raleigh secures the rights to the team, then negotiations will begin on true location. That true location IMO will be in east Raleigh over by South Park, near 40. Great access to interstate and a TON of open land to build mixed use around it, giving downtown yet another desirable district.

    I could be wrong, but that is my read after reading that article.

  42. I imagine this is the first choice of locations for the soccer stadium as explained in the presentation. A good portion of the stadium parking will be the nearby state employee parking that is largely unused after 5pm.

  43. I’m just going to go out on a limb and say that this location has a very, very slim chance of getting approved at this point in Raleigh’s growth. I promise I’m not trying to be a naysayer on this, but I just am trying to see this logically.

    Downtown doesn’t have near the density or a good enough transit plan to create a stadium with such little parking in the fabric of current downtown. When these groups are looking at market numbers they are taking the numbers from the ‘greater triangle’ area. They are going to really need to pull from Chapel HIll, Durham, and the burbs. They’d already be stretching themselves thin to put a team in thei market, but I think they can do it. However, to be successful you need a great and enjoyable experience for those coming from the surrounding area. Sitting in traffic on Wade only to hit bumper to bumper traffic on Peace St only to find out the only parking is a 15 min walk away. will be miserable. And then you have the local residents who are trying to go out to eat or head to the grocery store. This will cause a log jam on their most integral corridor.

    Look at the Durham Bulls for example. They are right there off the Durham Freeway. You pull off you park right next to the stadium, you walk around the restaurants and bars and you go watch the game. That is an easy evening for a family.

    There is honestly only once place in downtown that can offer that type of space and location near a major highway and that is the South Park area and the Cargill Mill (or whatever that place is). Unless Raleigh is saving that spot for the hopes of jumping into the MLB conversation (and upend Charlotte who is in trouble since their new Milb stadium downtown can NOT be retrofitted for a MLB team) in 5 years when they expand, they better jump on it now with this MLS expansion.

  44. Also, here is Bill Simmons (this is a short from HBO) talking about stadiums and what they bring to your city. Not saying I agree with all of this, but some of this is very interesting and should at least be thought about by Raleigh citizens as major league sports start making their way into the city.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS7KL84H1DM&feature=youtu.be

    What is interesting is how they talked about how owners use “no taxpayer money” to get approval, but it rarely works out that way.

  45. Ah Lou you sound like the people in my office…parking, parking, parking! Sitting a stadium right up on an interstate doesn’t improve the all your eggs in one basket/road situation one bit. I really don’t think soccer fans mind a 15 minute walk to a stadium…unlike other sports, I would say most soccer fans played or currently play the sport. Putting the stadium downtown is intended to support downtown and vice-versa…downtown supports the stadium. The stadium proposal in Miami has guess how much onsite parking?….zero! None. Nada. There are also tons of surface parking lots a mere 10 minute walk away owned by the State that are free after 5 o’clock. I agree that there are huge hurdles to this actually happening, the GA being the biggest, but location, access and parking are certainly not.

  46. Thank you Mark.

    There will be 17 home games… almost all on weekends or weekdays after work hours. There are tons of surface lots and parking decks throughout downtown. Many people would go out to dinner/pub before (and after) the game. Several roads head into downtown (Capital, Wake Forest, Glenwood, Hillsborough, S Saunders, New Bern). How many people come and go from downtown every morning and afternoon?

    Downtown is the best place to handle traffic and parking.

  47. Looks great!!! I couldn’t have picked a better location. It looks like Wilmington and Salisbury are going to be converted to 2-way streets, which will help with traffic flow.

  48. Wow Lou, that is a eye opener, I saw the video posted of the Stadium in san diego. Well Raleigh, If the City wants a Stadium for MLS, the South Park/Cargill Mill area would be the best bet. The Transit here “SUCKS” and you would need to provided much better City Bus services to shuttle folks to the Stadium and Downtown. Go Raleigh and Go Triangle buses would need to run until at least 2 am in order for it to happen. OR…!!! there is the Dix Site, Oh wait, You want it to be a Destination Park….my Bad. Durham had hit it on the nail when they build their Ballpark right off the Durham Freeway, Cool. Or yet again, If and this is a big, IF, what if the Stadium was built on the Dix site and have a Tram from Downtown/Glenwood/Warehouse district head to the Stadium. But that’s Just me.

  49. Maverick the Peace to Capital route out of town is nearly identical to Mangum to 147. Capital is limited access all the way to Hodges you know. And Wake Forest road and Glenwood also head north. I swear there seems to always be “too much traffic and not enough parking” crowd that spouts unsupported stuff at every opportunity. Is there a script? And public transit in this town isn’t completely awful for direct routes. People just don’t take the time to figure it out. I recently made it all the way home from the White Mountains of New Hampshire by going walk, bus, plane, bus, walk. Just took a little internetting. I also do the occasional fun thing like DRX to Durham for some beers and Amtrak home to DTR. You can do it too man. Everyone can do it!

  50. Mark,
    Raleigh and Miami are very different cities Larger, more densely populated cities can handle a stadium with no parking built within the fabric of a downtown (likely bc that dense population has led them to build a pretty good transit system.) Just be logical. Raleigh has poor transit and while you think all of the MLS fans play soccer or are in shape and want to walk 15mins, it’s likely not the case. You are talking about 20k people. If this wants to be a success in this area it needs to cater to not just hardcore soccer fans but families of kids who play soccer. So now you are talking about minivans with 9 year olds and 7 years olds piling out (just look at the demo going to Durham Bulls games to get an idea). Parking does matter to this type of person. Convenience does matter to them. So while I 100% see where you are coming from, I just simply disagree that this location is going to help this project be a success. And just FYI, I don’t know if there is a way to go back to archived comments, but I’m very pro-growth in Raleigh. In fact, this is the first time I feel like I’ve ever spoken out online AGAINST something being built in Raleigh. I just think we are seeing a shiny object here and we’re being blind to some real truths/concerns.

    Justin,
    If this stadium is going to be put smack dab in the middle of downtown then do you really believe it’s only going to be used for ’17 games per season?’ This is why I’m saying we are being a bit blind to the truths. Sure there are only 17 MLS games, but you think the stadium is just going to sit vacant all other times. You’re likely going to have major concerts and events probably 3 or 4 times per week throughout the entire year. So the argument that it’s only 17 days out of the year is just a bit silly, don’t you agree?

  51. Mark, It is the fact that I so used to taking mass transit to work, everyday that I only use my car on Saturday and Sundays.it has saved me hundreds of dollars on maintenance alone.I’m still trying to get used to Go Raleigh transit,and for the most part I do get around quite well if I’m not in any hurry. For me it’s a much better option, and I hope that people here in Raleigh learn how to get around using Go Raleigh transit and leave their cars at home, But for Soccer events, yes use of the car/minivan to drive kids to soccer, or any events at the stadium. As for the stadium site, it should be at the south end as to the north end of downtown,But whatever, so as long as this stadium proposal becomes real. I’m just thinking of if this stadium is built,the traffic will be, “well”,let’s not think about it.

  52. Parking and traffic jams are not going to be the nightmare scenario some seem to envision in my opinion. I recently read that over 55,000 people work in downtown Raleigh. A majority of these workers commute in daily I would think. They will either free up a parking slot as they head home or, hopefully, will occupy a seat in the stadium to watch the game.

    As a region our mass transit options are weak but not necessarily in close proximity to downtown. I can imagine extra circulator buses being set up for games and special events. The downtown Raleigh Alliance will be motivated to fund this as many potential customers will park in the downtown core if decent transport is available. The stadium is only 0.8 miles from Moore Square by the way. Many will choose just to walk.

    For those hell-bent on parking at the stadium Peace St. isn’t the only way in. If traffic flows in rendering are correctly depicted Salisbury St. will become two-way allowing traffic to flow north from the downtown core straight to the new parking garages planned for state employees (who will have gone home) just south of the stadium.

    When it comes to congestion people behave like electricity. They will follow the path of least resistance. The best path likely won’t be Peace St. but that’s okay. It doesn’t have to be.

    The one question I have is how will the considerable foot traffic coming from downtown core get across Salisbury St? I’m thinking a pedestrian bridge will need to be built across.

  53. I think we are all getting ahead of ourselves a little. I personally would be absolutely stunned if MLS actually picks Raleigh. I’m a supporter of this happening, but I think even best case scenario we would be in the second round of this, meaning it could be closer to a decade before this happens. It’s almost impossible to predict what downtown will be like by then.

    On an aside, I would take a nice light rail type of thing downtown from where I live (ironically across from PNC Arena). But I’d rather spend an hour in my car in traffic than trying to jump around buses in their current state. What a pain.

  54. Ahead of ourselves? MLS will pick 2 teams in December and 2 in 2018. First 2 will begin play by 2019/2020 at the latest, the 2nd two shortly thereafter. You are only talking 3-5 years max before you’d have to have a stadium rea

  55. @Uncle Jesse:

    MLS says that is the time line but look at how long the Miami team has taken to get running. That said, one way or another we are gonna get a downtown stadium. If it isn’t MLS, it will be the ‘Canes in the next 5-10 years. New ownership is gonna want to the team downtown (If they don’t move them out of state, which the NHL does not want).

  56. The new Peace/Capital interchange was designed to handle a high volume of traffic entering downtown via Capital from the north and McDowell from the south. I don’t envision a traffic problem for games that are in the evenings or weekends. As was already mentioned, downtown absorbs much more daily commuting traffic than would be caused by an event at the stadium.
    Also, keep in mind that the location of stadium would also draw walking fans from the growing pool of DT residents and is on the RLine as well. Given that fans will arrive and leave in a staggered manner due to coupling with dinners and after events, I think that any specific traffic concerns are unfounded. Given that this part of downtown already has residents, restaurants and bars in walking distance with many more to come with the completion of Smokey Hollow, I think that this location makes perfect sense.

  60. Today’s TBJ has a good article/pictures on the 20 story tower project for 400 Hillsborough St .

  61. Urban Outfitters was on my short list of desired retailers downtown because it’s usually a great indicator as to where a urban retail scene is heading. It’s a big deal in my opinion. Now I’d like to see Crate and Barrel and Apple open stores downtown.

  62. I’m getting sort of nervous about the 301 Hillsborough project. They even mentioned it in one of the articles as being troubled because of the developer dying.

  63. @Jeff – I’m not nervous AT ALL, because I hope the 301 Hillsbro project NEVER gets built as planned. A: The 20 story cap is a huge loss for that large of a lot, and B: The rendering proposed is/was one of the most hideous things I’ve ever seen. I think another developer could do a lot better with that land.

  64. While I’m not a fan of unbridled growth, I hope in the next 5 years Downtown Raleigh has a mini building boom. The Dillon, FNB Tower, One Glenwood, 400H, 301 Glenwood, a new train station, a soccer stadium, a renovated Sir Walter, and a few future unknowns.

    Downtown Raleigh has always been a slow growth city when it comes to commercial building development, regardless of the economic climate. The past 5 years (2012-2017) only produced the Residence Inn, Skyhouse, Charter South, Justice Center, and SECU. The five years prior (2007-2012) produced RBC/PNC Plaza, Marriott, Convention Center, West at North, and Quorum. Prior to that, downtown building growth was even more sporadic.

    I imagine the developers that take a chance will be greatly rewarded.

  65. The TBJ is reporting that ” A Wireless ” is bringing their headquarters to Raleigh ! 250 jobs that will average $ 93,000 ! Don’t know this but I’m hoping that they will be downtown !

  66. Yeah, not worried about 301 Hillsborough either. It’s an ugly building. I’m willing to wait if it improves the quality of what goes on that block in some way. Wouldn’t be sad if all the hotels get canceled too.

    The sooner 400H, One Glenwood, and FNB get started the better. Those will have a very positive impact.

  67. I think 301 would have been a great addition to downtown. There will be buildings that some people think are ugly, but the amount of growth that building would have brought would have been substantial.

    I would have loved for it to be 10 stories taller though.

    I feel buildings never get prettier after their initial design renders, only uglier. The exception to this might be the newest Edison renders.

  68. I do agree about the hotels we have seen coming to downtown. I hope they do not happen as well. They are horrible for a downtown area. We need to see something taller with way better design. Maybe something with a nice restaurant at the top with a roof top area. Just went to Nashville and they have amazing tall hotels going up everywhere. They just built a beautiful Westin with a glass roof top pool.

    I think One Glenwood and 400H will be great for the area.. and I absolutely love The Dillon.

  71. @ Stew & NightHawk , I love this article ! Thanks for sharing ! Go Raleigh / MLS Project !

  73. @Pavel – High price.. however.. such a great location. Right next door to Transfer Olde East with everything in that building.. plus the views of downtown.. plus so close to walk to everything. I think they are awesome!

  74. I am under the impression that posting direct links may not be entirely copesthetic but perhaps I’m wrong.

    Dwight, you and others will probably enjoy this article as well. It was hyperlinked in the previous article I posted but it’s good enough to feature on it’s own.

    Just copy link and replace ” DOT ” with “.”

    soccernsweettea DOT com/the-919tomls-rally-was-everything-an-mls-expansion-rally-should-be-451433606366

  75. @RobertB, Wake County isn’t adding 50,000 ppl a year. It’s more like 23,000-25,000 depending on the year. I just wanted to clarify.
    Still, it’s quite the population growth with nearly 100,000 being added about every 4 years. Wake will likely be near 1.15M by the next Census.

  76. Thanks Stew ! Another Great Article ! I love this one too ! This project would put Raleigh at the next level !

  77. I just read Republic FC (Sacramento) has decided to proceed with millions of dollars of pre-construction work on their stadium site BEFORE being awarded a franchise. This is an attempt to convince MLS officials just how far Sacramento is beyond their competition. Smacks of arrogance as far as I’m concerned. I’ll just leave it at that.

  79. Some thoughts about the stadium and location after reading through these comments…

    1) Niel Morris of WRALSportsFan has said the Cargill site was a no-go for Malik because of the railroad tracks. It was one of the first sites Malik was considering but the costs and the ability to move railroad tracks made it a non-option.

    2) The transit plans and the Capital/New Bern Corridor Plans will help with traffic flow around the stadium. Public transit in Raleigh may be bad now, but we passed the big transit plan recently and bus expansion/BRT was a big part of the plan.

    3) There seems to be a lot of concern about parking. Won’t the new State office buildings and residential being designed by Kane have built in parking decks? I assume that parking will hold a significant portion of the stadium capacity.

    4) NCGOP members in the GA have already publicly supported this plan (on Twitter), as has Gov. Cooper, the City of Raleigh, and Wake County Comissioners. Malik seems to have all his ducks in a row here. Since being owner of NCFC, he has made numerous promises and has yet to break one. He’s relocated a women’s team, united youth soccer under one umbrella, rebranded the team, and invested in marketing/salaries. Malik has also positioned himself on the US Soccer Board of Directors. He has a lot of pull through that. Many NCFC supporters use the hashtag #InMalikWeTrust.

    Best thing we can do to support this bid is attend some games and maybe buy the $40 membership. Let’s make this happen!

  80. @ Paul,

    Your last point is critical. Instead of talking about how much we would all like a stadium, team, etc, there is one thing we can ALL do to support the effort: BUY TICKETS to the NCFC & Courage matches. Atrendance & demonstrated local support for the current team IS a factor in which City will be awarded a franchise. We can all participate in that aspect of the MLS effort!!!

  82. There a good article on WRAL site on state gov’t complex and soccer stadium

    Search: “Sale price of state land sought by soccer club tops $91M”

  83. That’s the “private-public partnership”. He’s not asking for tax increases or to publicly finance the stadium, but he’s looking for a generous lease of the land and in return, he’ll build a stadium and new state government buildings. It’s a great deal for the state and they’d be fools to not work with Malik. It’s not everyday a guy comes around and offers to invest 300mil into a city. Thankfully, it seems that our politicians on both sides of the aisle have been receptive.

  84. @Paul, I completely agree. My only question would be for Tim Walton. $7M per acre seems kind of high. Are there comps to support that?

  85. It’s not impossible, but the State could come out ahead if they can rent these new office buildings cheaper than they can renovate the existing ones. Plus some money in pocket (not necessarily the 7 million an acre if the difference is built into cheap rent…kind of like a negative interest rate), plus factor in any leases the State can cancel or new buildings not build themselves since the new office space is double what is proposed to be removed (assuming it would all be available for State occupancy.

  87. @ Dwight. YES! Charlotte should just drop out. It’s a lost cause.

    In other news it was announced in TBJ yesterday that Kane Realty has just sold North Hills apartments for 88M. I’d imagine profits from this sale will come in handy for funding something special like Smokey Hollow or … umm … perhaps a development around a certain soccer stadium? Just wishful thinking on my part but having funds available certainly helps making such a dream a reality.

  88. Just learned from a friend that is a engineer that. the developer is in early stage meetings concerning the 7 story hotel across from One Glenwood South !

  89. Sorry Guys , My Mistate , The 7 story Hotel that is in early stages discussion is for 400 Glenwood Ave. across from the old Pine State Creamery location !

  90. @Dwight ….. where?? The only place across from that building I could see it go is the sliver of a parking lot between Solas and Armadillo Grill – which would be awesome! But I don’t think that’s 400 Glenwood…

  91. @ Jake , All I have heard is that it will hopefully be in that area ! This came from a very reliable person !

  92. @Dwight and Jake, I wouldn’t expect Armadillo, Noir or the Heat fitness buildings to last much longer. At one floor each, they just aren’t maximizing the value of the land on which they reside. All of those sites are DX-7-SH (shop front). 400 Glenwood is actually the corner where Heat is. It’s a fine little brick building but I doubt that will save it.

  93. The Heat building is part of the historic fabric and character of Glenwood (of which there is a decent amount still), and in particular, that intersection. Originally all four corners had brick commercial buildings. Gramercy is one crappy replacement for a historic storefront (I realize there was that yellow 60’s office building in between, but prior to that was the older building). Noir’s building is closer to modern style, materials and technique and as such has no character, and Armadillo is sort of a tweener…looks fine in a mix of other buildings, doesn’t/isn’t much of a historic contributor on its own. Anyway, I haven’t expected Glewnood to much more than a profit driven toilet since about 2002 or so (after historic preservation of the Creamery and the Power House area were done its development quality has declined in my eyes)

  96. @ Stew,

    Why are they blending comparisons of EPL matches where you are guaranteed heightened attendance. If Man City played Real Madrid @ Carter-Finley stadium, you’d have a similar statistic and I’d bet you’d have greater turnout than Nashville. CF seats close to 60,000 I think and it would be a complete sell-out. Using those comparisons to NASL makes no sense. It’s apples v oranges.

    this said, NCFC does need attendance to spike. Although I wouldn’t use this is a a huge barometer of MLS support in Raleigh. If you add attendance for UNC men & women’s soccer, Duke, NC State, etc this fall and add those to NCFC numbers, that would be a better gauge of soccer support.

  97. @Uncle Jesse. I get what you’re saying and appreciate your critique of the article. The stats for EPL vs. EPL matches should have been segregated out.

    The article does say that league crowds — the week-in, week-out job of drawing fans — takes priority. In this regard we are behind many of our competitors but, again, I appreciate your perspective on our college attendance numbers being important …

    Doing a quick Google search the combined (UNC/DUKE/NC STATE) 2016 season attendance per game was 3,172 (men) and 2,092 (women). For those who are interested:

    http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_soccer_RB/2017/Attendance.pdf
    http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_soccer_RB/2017/2016attend.pdf

    Speaking of the English Professional League 7,268 fans were in attendance at NCFC’s home game vs. Swansea City this past July 22nd. At first glance the turn-out was a bit disappointing until you consider that the high temp was 101 degrees (actual) that day!

    Hoping for the best when it comes to our MLS bid. I hope those making the final decision strive to keep all relevant factors in mind.

  98. Here’s my view when it comes to our expansion hopes…

    The competition seems to have been widdled down from 12 teams to seven. From all accounts, Sacramento seems to be a lock for one of the four slots. So really it’s a six team race for three slots between Nashville, Phoenix, San Antonio, Detroit, Cincinnati, and Raleigh.

    For NCFC, the biggest concern would be Nashville, because it’s unclear if MLS would pick two teams from the Southeast. Our bid is clearly the dark horse of this group. But, we have many of the pieces that MLS is looking for in our bid. We have a universally respected owner in Steve Malik, a member of the US Board of Directors. We have a fairly good-sized TV market when compared to those other bids – probably the second most important metric behind ownership group. We have a proposed downtown stadium site with an excellent rendering. A lot of work needs to be down to secure this site, but I would never doubt Malik and Kane’s ability to make it happen. We have the largest youth-pro soccer organization in the country, something no other bid even comes close to matching.

    Our biggest obstacles from securing this bid are attendance and market size. Our attendance figures are disappointing by any stretch of the imagination. Ideally, we would be averaging 6-7 thousand fans per game. The second hurdle is securing the stadium location. And finally, as I’ve mentioned before, we probably have to beat out Nashville. Geography may not be our friend for this.

    Each bid has their obstacles. I would actually give us a fairly good chance at securing slot #3 or 4 in 2018. If not, we’ll have to hope that MLS agrees to expand beyond 28 teams. We’ll see…but until then, support NCFC! Go to a game! $10 will get you a seat in the South Stand with the Supporter’s Groups. You’ll have a fun time chanting and singing with the Oak City Supporters. If you enjoy that, you can even buy a $49 membership to show MLS our market enthusiasm for the sport.

  99. Ok, am I the only person who is bothered by the lack of public enthusiasm from our city council for this announcement?
    Especially from our mayor, whom seemed more worried if we could make the “numbers work” then the idea that this is a great opportunity that we can’t sqander and must work together to see come together to make a reality? (sorry for the run-on sentence)

  100. I imagine Dix is the focus, maybe already stretching public funds. To add another project like a stadium may make things a bit thin. Just a guess though.

  101. I think the Council and the Mayor are probably hesitant to completely jump on board for many reasons, but it’s and election year and my guess is that appearing responsible and not favoring downtown too much plays the best across much of the electorate.

  102. I am thinking that the mayor and city council are just not happy with the downtown location (north side), they wanted south-side. It’s kind of like a dad saying isn’t she a beautiful newborn girl, when all along secretly as well as in the open, he was hoping for a boy…disappointed but also a little mad because they think it will build up that area to much for their liking…just something to think about. ;-)

  103. I’m also a bit confused by the lack enthusiasm. This would literally be a $300M + ($150 stadium, $150M entrance plus ancillary Kane buildings) investment in the city and it’s crickets. I live in Mordecai and I’m thrilled! Not only is this area not uprooting existing communities, it’s bringing vibrancy to a very under-utilized asset in Halifax mall. This could be a real game-changer for our city.

    Sometimes we miss the forest through the trees.

  104. Sunday’s N & O Sports Section has a good article on Mr. Malik’s bid for a MLS Team !Mr. Malik has been some kind of busy since MLS’s Executives came to us in July !

  105. Does anyone know if the site plans for the land and complex have to be more concrete before Decembers decision?
    Also, it would be nice to know if this arena had a retractable roof? I think it could make a difference in whether we can play all 30 of those home games in bad weather?

  107. 17 home games is correct. Roof is not a major issue since MLS generally allows games to continue in rain but will stop for lightning even if there was a roof.

  110. @Stew. No surprise. The NCGA really has no use in doing anything for its citizens in the state’s large cities.

  111. Given that this is a $300 million endeavor, I think the ownership group is capable of covering a $200K study. Like John said, don’t look for the NCGA to do anything to support this. It’s going to have to be a sweetheart deal for the state to budge, and that starts with the owners covering pretty much all the costs, and the city covering the rest.

  112. Keep in mind John Kane is a major contributor to the GOP, at both the state and federal levels. He’s most likely contributed a lot of money to a lot of these cuckoo birds in the NC Legislature. He’s leading the construction side of this equation. Bill Redmond, CEO, of Trademark properties is also a have GOP contributor and is in the background. Have no idea of Malik’s politics. I know he wasn’t a fan of HB2, but who in their right mind was. My guess is he’s contributed to Republican and Democrats alike.

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