Pic of the Week

Rendering of Hargett Place

More like Render of the Week.

Above is the rendering for Hargett Place, a group of 19 for East Hargett Street. I’m into this project because of the high-quality (perceived anyway) as well as unique townhome design shown in these renderings. This is a housing type that I think is hugely lacking around downtown Raleigh and I would like to see much more of it.

For sale, rather than for rent, units are also nice to see in a part of Raleigh where rentals dominate so some balance to the market always seems like a good thing to cheer for.

The rendering reminds me of brownstone rowhouses that you can spot in older cities in the northeast. I can see a very comfortable street face along East Street with these homes facing City Cemetery. Once new sidewalk trees mature it’ll be a nice place to walk in the future.

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Comments

Project is a terrific addition and I agree, DTR needs more development like this. Unfortunately, the market will not support the proposed pricing and I sense adjustments to the final product will be required. The Ten at South Person addressed a market need and was pricing accordingly for this area of DTR ($180-$190/sq. ft.). Hargett Place is seeking to double that. And,despite how great the product may be, at the end of the day, it’s all about location. And, this location will not support those prices. Perhaps I may be wrong…..

I agree on the pricing. At ~$700,000 each, that’s pricing like Fairview Row but no where close to as nice of an area. I think ~$400,000 is more realistic.

Different John here but I agree with the other John. 🙂
I wish the site plan was a bit different with a simple alley between two back to back rows of homes. That would more urban. I’d also like to see it jump start a collection of blocks developed like this. To create a true experience it has to be more than just this project as an island.

@Johns (My middle name’s John…), and Kerry,

I agree the price might be a bit high. If second John’s wish comes true and we see the emergence of a brownstone neighborhood, I could see these reselling for a pretty penny.

I only agree with one of the Johns.

You want 1,700 – 2,267 sqft with a roof to terrace at $400k? Wouldn’t we all!?

I think this is excellent for downtown Raleigh! I absolutely love brownstones and the look of these with a rooftop is great. The one thing I wish, was they would have decided to put them in a better location. On a street just like you would see in larger cities. Where they face each other and have wide sidewalks with pretty trees. The fact that these are on a corner .. seems more just like townhomes to me.

The townhomes will add a lot to the neighborhood, strengthening the case for more commercial development around Moore Square. There is a lot of potential within the neighborhoods east of Downtown.

@bob148. I agree that 400K is too much of a pipe dream but 700K for that location is going to be a struggle in my opinion. I just don’t think that the east side of DT is mature enough in its development to easily command the top end of that project’s range. If the project was all 1,700 sf units that were under 500K, I think that they would have a good shot at selling it out quickly. If the project were significantly larger and inclusive of several city blocks where it would make a huge impact to the greater east side neighborhood, I think that the top end of the market would be easier to push. Time will tell and I wish them luck!
That said, while not my personal style, it is looking like a beautiful project.

The developer, Hyde Street isn’t an amateur. The company has developed high-end real estate projects before. Assuming they are simply ‘guessing’ at the market, isn’t how multi-million dollar real estate projects get off the ground. Are they ‘testing the ceiling’ at $700K?…perhaps, but to think the market is $300,000 less than the $700K Hyde Street is suggesting is simply opinion not based in market research. I think many of you will be surprised at the price points they do ultimately get. My money is on it being a lot closer to $700K than $400, or even $500,000 per unit.

Agree, with Uncle Jesse. People moving to this area will and are paying these prices, especially the ones who want to be downtown (urban atmosphere).

I also agree with Bob148, they should be facing each other, have wide sidewalks and walk ways in between.

I have been saying this for years, brownstones are attractive and a great place to hang your hat if done right (brownstones are long overdue for downtown Raleigh). There should be a community/whole block/couple of blocks of brownstones in downtown. This developer should expand this area when they all sell.

Yes, I agree with both Uncle J and Anthony on pricing. People love brownstones and I bet given the chance to buy nice luxury ones – they will.

Just curious of everyones thoughts – where do you think the best place for brownstones downtown Raleigh would be? Like the ones they have in larger cities.. the ones facing each with wide side walks, beautiful trees and back alley ways?

Where would be a place a builder could actually go in and do this? Maybe somewhere around N Blount St. .. where there is currently just government parking lots? Find a stretch through there to build on both sides? Maybe create a new development near dorthea dix?

@Bob148, the east side of DT is the best place for this type of product because it has the greatest amount of gridded streets available for redevelopment. There just needs to be much more of it and with more traditional site plans that have monolithic blocks of brownstones that are not constantly interrupted by driveways.

Brownstones made out of actual brownstone would be, ya know, great. I’m always afraid modern materials never will achieve what we love about other city’s dense historic areas. For my money, I think the entire area down near Boulted Bread should be row homes…some townhomes are planned at Harrington/Lenoir/West, but the whole stretch along South, including where the proposed mini storage is going, would be good for row homes with the new median and traffic pattern going in, and anywhere else in there, you can cram some.

@Mark,

I couldn’t agree more on your last point. I would put them all anywhere in that corner of downtown all the way up to the old Amtrak station, and east to Dawson Street. Part of South can be a commercial district, but rowhouses make so much sense for any underused land.

Perhaps block just east of the Lincoln Apartments is a potential location for additional brownstones or some other type of large scale residential development? The lots on southern portion of block (0.69 ac) all have same owner so it would be easy to assemble land. This area seems ripe for redevelopment and would serve as a good transition zone between residential neighborhood to the east with large-scale mixed use development that is likely to come just east of Moore Square.

Wintershaven Apartments on north half of this block (1.37 ac) is section 8 senior housing with contract expiring Aug 2018. I am not advocating for the replacement of this affordable housing resource with an expensive market-rate project, just pointing out the potential for it.

To say that people moving to this area are paying $400/sq. ft. is misleading. Nothing in DTR is commanding that price. And the communities that are currently priced in the mid $300/sq. ft. range are located in more established areas of downtown, many with terrific views of the skyline.

Buyers in this price point don’t buy potential. And, even if they did, three side of this block are fixed (Bloodworth units overlook loading dock @ Federal building; Hargett units overlook The Lincoln; and East St. units overlook cemetery). Yes, surrounding blocks hold great potential, but that development won’t change the view of a concert jungle across the street (docks @ Federal building).

Uncle Jesse…you are one of my favorite posters here…but I think real estate development has a lot of guesswork built into the “science” side of it. Especially when prices are pushing or exceeding the historical limits for an area…lots of hoping and guessing there. Were these “experts” as good as is often touted, no project would ever go bust. John is right, that essentially nothing in Raleigh commands $400 a sqft (some small ones in Cameron Park and Five Points did fetch that). I mean, engineer’s have built bridges that fell down…as downtown residents, many of the posters here monitor the on-the-ground situation here perhaps more intently than the developers do, are perfectly intelligent people quite capable of detecting a miscue on the part of a developer. Jason Queen is having a heck of a time selling two new homes on Hargett at around 400k each. Perhaps the row home look will get some more wallets to open up, but I sense a bit of a leveling off of prices in east downtown for all types except the modernist homes (well those are leveling too, but at a higher per sqft).

I live on Hargett, those 2 houses are struggling but a 1570 sq ft Monarch new build on Haywood right off Hargett just sold with a listing of 425k. It went under contract before the framing was done, and sold before they finished building it so I don’t think single family homes in the east are done commanding a swollen asking price. Granted the selling price point is yet to be listed…

@80’sforlife: If the house on Haywood sold for list, that’s still less than $275 a foot. I think that there are two numbers to consider when determining the market. The first is absolute price and $425K seems like it’s in a sweet spot for a new house downtown. It doesn’t surprise me at all that the house you mentioned sold. It’s not only on a side street but it’s also a few blocks closer to DT proper and is surrounded by more sfh’s than the other location (that isn’t selling) near the DMV and that church.
I think that the juxtaposition of these homes (selling vs not selling) may be telling us a compelling story. Perhaps walking proximity to DT proper matters to buyers more than was presumed? Perhaps immediate neighborhood context matters as well?
Hargett Place is really close to Moore Square so its location is an advantage. However, its immediate context is iffy, especially along Bloodworth. Sure the skyline views will be nice but that parking lot across the street isn’t a providing any urban context. I’d rather be looking at the cemetery. I wonder if that will freak people out or not or scare buyers from dropping that much money. Time will tell.

I’m guessing that person either a)really wanted that house b)got swept up in the mania of rapid price increases. I bought just off Hargett myself and felt the anxiety of wondering if my lowball offer would be outbid. There are six Haywood places that Monarch did all at once and went for between 208-253 a sqft. I paid 188 a foot for mine fully renovated (with a good size concession from the developer) a tad farther out. Anyway, sticking to my point, and general frustration and dismissal of the 700k potential pricing for Hargett Place.

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