Comments on: No Smoking in Downtown Raleigh?

By: Magnus

Magnus — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:04:50 +0000

EarlP I guess that was supposed to be a direct attack on my political affiliation but you got it wrong. So as the saying goes, you’ve been hoisted by your own petard.

Thou dost protest too much. I prescribe beano.

By: EarlP

EarlP — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 03:09:09 +0000

Well the real question is what is considered private. Any average bar or restaurant is already subject to all sorts of regulation, for our own good. They are open to the public for business, this makes them subject to regulation. But suppose they have a membership only policy. Then I think they should be left alone and allow all the smoke they want. It works in NYC, it can work in Raleigh.
Do you think restaurants should be allowed to serve food containing salmonella? Second-hand smoke has been proven to cause all sorts of health problems. American manufactured tobacco has all sorts of chemical additives, which have health effects beyond cancer alone. Thus, it is necessary to keep it out of enclosed public spaces in order to avoid infringing upon the rights of others. Health comes before personal comfort in this case.
Magnus, wtf are you talking about? I appreciate some comic relief just like anyone else, but where do tofu and latte come into this? I don’t like tofu. I don’t drink latte. This conversation is a little above your head if you are perpetuating GOP stereotypes of anyone debating you being somehow weak, gay, french, vegetarian, communist, whathaveyou. And that somehow all of these are inter-related. Sorry, they don’t go hand-in-hand like republicans/racism/corporate greed/uneducated hate. This clearly comes from a place of personal insecurity. I eat meat. I *ucking love a steak like I love *itties. As a former linebacker, I can tell you personally that you have no idea what you’re saying. That said, if farting were preventable, I’d be all for it. Alas, farts are not truly hazardous to anyone’s health. Cigarettes are, thus their use in public can be regulated.
By the way, none of the smoke supporters answered if sound pollution, or street pollution for that matter, should be regulated. Do I have your permission to blast my car horn outside your window indefinitely? Hey if you don’t like it, you can pay to soundproof your house.

By: Johnnyb

Johnnyb — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:39:30 +0000

EarlP,

I do not have the “right” to just light up anywhere I please. I certainly do not have the right to light up on someone’s private property without their permission, that would be trespasssing. At the same time, neither you, a majority of voters or the government have the right to tell private business owners that they may not allow smoking on their own private property. I do not have the right to smoke on someone else’s private property, but at the owner’s discretion I might be permitted to smoke.

The public does have the right to prohibit smoking in the public sphere, but it seems to me that smokers pay more than their fair share in taxes through th combination of federal, state, and money from the tobacco settlements. Smokers do not wish to be intentionally rude, and would gladly use smoking areas set aside for them, after all they are tax paying members of the public and by paying the tax on tobacco, they are purchasing the right to enjoy that tobacco.

Smokers and non-smokers have gotten along fine for a very long time until a few zealots decided that the best course of action was to behave in a hostile manner towards smokers and press for laws that undermine common decency and hospitality. Simply giving smokers a place to smoke, financed with the money that they already pay in taxes would cost the general public nothing, and solve all the problems of second hand smoke exposure. But the non-smokers decided that they needed to stamp out smoking as a cultural norm, so they are promoting these progressive regulations and taxes which unfairly penalize smokers because fascists do not like the smokers. In many ways, this is much worse than segregation of the Non-whites, because at least non-whites were accomidated, while smokers are simultaneously being outlawed all together.

Using the powers of government to change the culture and repress individual liberty and private property rights is fascism. Hitler went after the smokers too.

By: Magnus

Magnus — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:28:48 +0000

I wish the anti-smokers would stop farting in public. I have the right to breath in clean fart-free air. I can’t go anywhere without having to breath in your tofu & latte farts.

By: EarlP

EarlP — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:50:19 +0000

Nice Johnnyb, nice. You should check your definition of fascist.
Also, since you’re promoting the bullying mentality of “if you don’t like it, go some place else”, a.) what gives you the right to take ownership of 20m of space just because you have a cigarette? Some freedom you’re promoting. b.)by that logic, I can go stand in any public place and make any kind of noise I want, as long as it’s below the threshold of causing hearing damage. If you dont like it, dont stand next to me. you’ll still hear it across the room and won’t be able to have a conversation, but i’ve got rights, no? Maybe I could park my car in front of your window and let the horn sound indefinitely. It would be fascist to try and regulate such things, apparently. I mean if I want my car horn to be 250db, the government shouldnt be able to regulate Ford’s rights to put a 250db car horn in, even if it would ruin the hearing of anyone nearby and cause countless wrecks in the street. Let the market decide.
The BBQ vs smoking argument won’t stick. There are already regulations and specifications for how cooking-related exhaust is handled in restaurants. If you want to regulate the chemicals in cooking charcoals, I’m all for it.
I could get on board with having private establishments pay hefty fees that go towards healthcare when they allow smoke. In New York, there are speciality smoking bars, which serve real tobacco, not the chemical laced variety found in corporate-made cigarettes. The smoking ban hasn’t hurt business, and it certainly makes it easier for people to quit smoking. Any smokers care to post the stats on the percentage of smokers who want to quit but can’t?